One for you damn peace loving hippies.

[den]

Or check out the Iraqometer

Comments

[klwalton.livejournal.com]

Wholesale rejection of propaganda from all sides could scarcely be termed "lazy" I should think...

Why? In good propaganda is always a kernel of fact. To reject it wholesale is to deprive your critical thinking processes of data.

Using numbers for inflammatory purposes, such as the web site above, does not further dialog, it just polarizes people into useless shouting camps.

I disagree with your characterization of the numbers as being for inflammatory purposes. I think they're rather telling. Certainly they were used to make a point. And I think they *did* make their point.

[makovette.livejournal.com]

I will assume that your meaning of "good propaganda" really means "effective propaganda", yes?

Propaganda is by it's very nature intended to deceive and influence people into think/behaving in a specific way.

Let me punch a hole into the civilian casualty numbers for example. Let's say 500 civilians are reported dead. Let us wildly assume the number is accurate. How many of those civilians were Shia Muslims murdered by Saddam's goon squads or Kurds slaughtered by the republican guards?

Yes, 500 civilians are dead, but the authors of the propaganda on the web page want to the reader to act on the assumption that the coalition forces killed all 500 of those civilians.

Remember: Saddam's propagandists benefit with ever civilian death regardless of how that person died. In fact Saddam's goons have every incentive to kill as many civilians as possible. And killing Iraqi's is certainly the one thing Saddam and his goons are the most expert at doing.

Under the coalition's current rules of engagement, coalition forces are bent over double to the point they are taking more casualties that necessary to preserve civilian lives. IE: US and British serve men and women are being shot and killed to prevent Iraqi civilians from being wounded or killed.

And THAT is why people swallowing propaganda like that web page frosts my jock strap no end.

Mako

[klwalton.livejournal.com]

Propaganda is by it's very nature intended to deceive and influence people into think/behaving in a specific way.

To influence, certainly. But to deceive "by it's very nature"? Not always. One can use facts as very effective propaganda, framed in the right context. One can propagandize without lies.

Under the coalition's current rules of engagement, coalition forces are bent over double to the point they are taking more casualties that necessary to preserve civilian lives. IE: US and British serve men and women are being shot and killed to prevent Iraqi civilians from being wounded or killed.

I dont' disagree with you. That does not take away from the fact that 51% or so of Americans polled believe it was Iraq which attacked the World Trade Center. It does not take away from the fact that the opinions of many Americans are based on false assumptions. And that, specifically, is what I was addressing.

I'm a member of the news media. I have a loved one in Kuwait who is an NBC cameraman, covering that particular venue, who will probably head to Baghdad sooner or later. I know spin, bias and propaganda. I am disturbed by the ignorance of many of the American people. I think it's a problem that needs addressing.