Some questions

[den]

When did Animal Rights and Vegetarianism become linked? It seems almost every LJ community on Animal Rights is also a hard-core Vegan group.

What is the difference between Vegetarians and Vegans? Is it sort of like the difference between those who like Furry art and those who like Anthropomorphic art?

And the next vegetarian who calls me a "carnivore" will be called a "herbivore." I felt a little peckish up at the Mall this morning, so I bought a late-breakfast corned beef, lettuce and tomato sandwich. The lady beside me, who bought a "Wholemeal. No butter! And are your vegetables organic?" salad sandwich, snorted and muttered "carnivore" under her breath.

"Omnivore, actually," I said. "I eat meat, veggies, grain, dairy and fish."

"Well I don't kill animals, and will have no part in that activity. I love animals too much."

"Do you have a cat?" I asked. I resisted telling her that I love animals too, and kill them on a regular basis.

She looked startled. "Yes! And I take very good care of him!"

"Then your should look up the term 'obligate carnivore' and think about it. Cats are obligate carnivores." She stormed off with her herbivore sandwich and the bloke behind the counter gave me a funny look. "It means they must eat meat," I explained. "If she has a cat then she must feed it meat or she's neglecting it."

He laughed, then told me his salad bar was organic; his dad grew the tomatos and lettuses in hydroponic racks in a greenhouse near the river.

That sounds organic enough for me.

Comments

Veganism

[ursuscal.livejournal.com]

I once got into a fight (yes, it almost became physical) when a militant vegan tried to shove a pamphlet in my paw as I arrived late on campus for a mid-term.

"You use the by-products of dead animals!" She accused.

"So do YOU." I retorted.

"I do NOT!" She insisted.

"Where the hell do you think the leather in those Birkenstocks you're wearing came from, a Vinyl farm?" I smirked.

Her jaw dropped.

I knew a photographer who was rather militant about not "using" animals, until I pointed out to her that the emulsion on her Kodak film came from cattle and horse hooves. Heehee. Ain't I a stinka?

Re: Veganism

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

Re: Veganism

[dewhitton.livejournal.com]

The next one to tell me "I only wear cotton. I won't wear wool because it's cruel," will be told how cotton is grown, the amount of chemicals needed, and the vast amounts of land and rivers totally fucked up because of it.

And if no one wore woll or ate lamb, there'd be no reason to have sheep as a species.

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

Vegetarian doesn't eat animal flesh. Many but not all vegetarians will eat eggs and dairy products. Many but not all vegetarians choose not to wear leather.

Vegan doesn't eat or use any animal products at all. Some also avoid honey.

[dewhitton.livejournal.com]

Dairy I can understand, and eggs I can sort of understand. But no honey? That's being silly.

I wonder if hard-core Vegans take vitamin supplements.

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I've started describing myself as a polyvore: I eat many things, but not everything :-).

Polyvore

[anisoptera.livejournal.com]

I'm stealing that.

[dewhitton.livejournal.com]

Omnivore describes me better. about the only thing I won't eat is pineapple on pizza.

[kaijima.livejournal.com]

I can sympathize with moral vegitarians and vegans (just to distinguish between those who are in it just for dietary reasons and not to Save the Fuzzy Woodland Creatures) to a certain degree. Some of the root motivation is usually "Well, we are sentient animals so we can choose to do things that don't inflict unneccessary harm on other animals" or some such.

However, I find it typically very rare to find a moral vegitarian or vegan who doesn't springboard from there into a hollier-than-thou attitude; usually taking their opinion to indicate they are more enlightened and "evolved" than people with different viewpoints. Most people like this seem to only draw more attention to their own ignorance of many issues and facts by acting that way as well.

[dewhitton.livejournal.com]

If someone wants to go on a purely vegetable diet, then good on them. I'll respect that.

Actually, I think saving the fuzzy woodland creatures is a good idea. 8) But, yeah, the holier-than-thou mob annoy me almost as much as the keep-the-animals-alive-at-any-cost mob, and less than the release-the-animals-into-the-wild people.

[jenny_evergreen]

*likes to think she is one of the few, the proud, the nonjudgemental moral vegetarians* =)
Most recent journal entry on the topic.
Clarification for Den: I wouldn't, obviously, be happy about it, but I could kill a suffering animal, if I had no other choice.

*snicker*

[berin.livejournal.com]

Try explaining sometime to a militant vegan that even when they wash the veggies they still ingest near-microscopic insects. A little protient never hurt anyone.

Besides, meat is good. :)

Re: *snicker*

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

Never mind the insects, think of all the poor innocent bacteria they murder every time they bathe!

Re: *snicker*

[tropism.livejournal.com]

What about the vegetables? The cries of the carrots!

[ursulav.livejournal.com]

Having evolved from a long line of omnivores, I am loathe to quit. My dentition and my stomach bacteria want meat, and who am I to argue?

[dewhitton.livejournal.com]

When I want to go purely herbivore I'll grow an appendix 6 feet long. Until then it's meat and veg for me.

[kelloggs2066.livejournal.com]

Aren't Vegans people from a planet circling the star Vega?

[dewhitton.livejournal.com]

That's what *I* thought!

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

I'm still trying to figure out this concept of inorganic vegetables that people seem to believe exist...

[fenris-lorsrai.livejournal.com]

They serve them as part of school lunch. It's the only explanation for how they could get translucent GREY corn. Gak.

[weyrdbird.livejournal.com]

"I don't eat people! Eating people is *wrong!*" "COMMUNIST!"- the reluctant cannibal.

You euthanize unfortunate creatures that have been knocked about too much. Mostly by humans. They whine about organics and purity while wearing polychemical and urethane clothing or shoes made from tires, while the rest of the humans foist encroachment on the last refuges of the animal kingdom.

I think if the tigers had their way we'd all have no limbs and be forced to jump through flaming hoops before being cooked for dinner. Our bones and teeth would be their necklaces and our hair would adorn their lairs or be used as sleeping insulation.

The sad thing is that the pollution of the environment will probably kill everything. If the food doesn't get scarce first.

I'm an omnivore until I die. Plants feel pain too in their way, being ripped from the earth , cooked, fried or steamed, or mashed up into edible mulch. If they had *their * way, we'd all die from an unsuspected mushroom or toxic leaf that got in with the safe ones.

It's war, I say! Eat everything before it eats us!

Sorry for that last bit of regurgitation, it was a little too difficult for me to swallow:).

Is there such a thing as an organic cat?:D

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[haggis-bagpipes.livejournal.com]

I was a vegetarian during my teenage years, my younger brother wasn't. I'm 5'4, he's already 5'6 is and still growing o.O

[jenny_evergreen]

For the record, I've encountered numerous people who refer to themselves as "carnivores", often to be snotty to/in defiance of vegetarians, so there are people on both ends of the scale.
And I made the mistake of pointing out they were an omnivore to someone and got shot down for it. No good deed...*shrug and laugh* I thought maybe they really didn't know...
Anyway, it'd be hard to hear "herbivore" as insulting, but that's just me, I suppose. Still, I'm technically an omnivore these days, anyway.
(And, yeah, I know all about obligate carnivores, and see no reason to force my ethical decision on the animals I take care of, or anyone else, for that matter.)
My reason is a combo of "I don't want to be more hypocritical than I can help" and "I'm a sentient animal with a choice, and this seems to me like the choice that does the least amount of harm, at least on a personal level."

So. I won't go all holier-than-thou and nasty and bashing, and I wish no one else would either. (Some of what I've seen in the comments, I find personally rather hurtful. I'm doing the best I can, you know, microscopic bugs and photographic equipment aside, to be consistent with my beliefs and balanced in my life. In my experience, at least some of the extreme animal-rights vegetarians get to be that way in reaction to that kind of mean-spirited attitude from non-vegetarians.)

There are good people on both sides and in the middle. Really. I wish everyone would remember that more often. Goodwill goes a long way. =)

[dewhitton.livejournal.com]

I think I reacted rather badly to being sniffed at in the mall. It was the first time I'd had someone criticize my eating habits, apart from my doctor. "EAT LESS FAT! EXERCISE MORE!"

I wouldn't really call anyone a herbivore; I'm more likely to blurt out a humourus/insulting stock phrase. ("Vegetebles is what food eats" or "animals are nature's way of keeping food fresh until you can eat it.") A friend calls himself a carnivore, and liked to bring it up a lot until I pointed out that the steak sandwich he was eating also had onion, tomato, lettuce and bread. We then had a hot chip throwing fight and that was the end of the argument.

I'm all for animal rights and personal choices. I don't like extremists who would force me into accepting their beliefs. I mean, a week on a purely meat diet would have me in the garden eating the roses. It's not for me. You're a vegetarian? Good on ya! That's cool, you're doing something I can't do.

(Well, I could, but after a week the dogs would be in danger. 8)

[sjwt.livejournal.com]

I love the fact that the b12 or what ever it is,
that is only avible in mushrooms, accatlay has been
proven to come from cow shit they put on them, and
as of late most companys have moved away and are
useing altnitive composts for there mushrooms..

hehehehh,
so vegans and vegitreans are now at the stage
where unless they do there own growing of mushrooms
theres one vitiman out there that they cant get,
at lest its only modoratly importaned, somethign
to do with musccle growth..

Ive only ever knowen one built up vegiteran,
and no vegans.. and i dont meen fat, i meen
one who can lift a good deal of weights for
there size, and man did he watch his diet,
only ate his own prepared food, and keep
upto date deatils on prity much every fruit
and veg there was.

[http://users.livejournal.com/crossfire_/]

Here in the United States, moral vegetarianism (and moral veganism) is classist: only wealthy people can afford it. And since classism goes hand-in-hand with racism, it follows that moral vegetarianism is also a racist proposition.

That's how I stifle those "discussions."

[jenny_evergreen]

For the record, my husband and I (and our four cats and turtle) live on roughly 35000 a year (that's our total income, after taxes, so split that equally between us for individual income (although he actually makes the money.)) I would not call that wealthy. Just a data point. :)